Marine conservation is one of the hottest topics on the planet. From plastic pollution to mass coral bleaching events, scientists all over the world are doing their bit to try and combat this global crisis. Francesca Trotman and her team at Love the Oceans are trying to do just this in Guinjata Bay, Sout East Mozambique. Their aim is to set up a marine protected area (MPA) off the coast that will protect the incredible biodiversity found on the 24 reef system and also alleviate poverty in the local community.
Trotman established Love the Oceans during her marine biology master’s course at Southampton University (UK) after traveling to Mozambique on a photography internship. Here, she witnessed her first shark killing and finning and mortified by the event was driven to try and save the species of the area. Tom interviews Trotman 5 years into her 15-year plan of establishing an MPA in the area, where their approach is not only focused on the environment and ensuring direct conservation but also one that is deeply embedded within the community. This is absolutely vital for modern-day conservation projects so that they can be left self-sustaining with the local community and provide jobs, tourism, education, and money to poverty-stricken regions. They cover why volunteers are the most effective method of data collection, why and how the community projects are so important, and how things might have been done differently in retrospect.
If you would like to find out more information about Love the Oceans or if you are even interested in volunteering yourself you can head over to their websiteĀ lovetheoceans.org,Ā Facebook,Ā Twitter (@lovetheoceans)Ā orĀ Instagram!!
Tools
- Volunteers:Ā With there being so many reefs in the bay there is tons of data to collect, without the hard work and passion of volunteers who help to collect data almost year-round, this project would be nigh impossible.
- Community Projects:Ā Connecting and embedding conservation into the local community is the only way to establish a successful program. Love the Oceans works with the local Elders and fishermen to improve the level of education, increase the use of more sustainable fishing techniques and bring in employment and money to the local community.
- Reef Life Surveys:Ā The method of surveying used while SCUBA diving on the reefs to assess the biodiversity of life present. Transects are laid down and fish, invertebrate and coral species are all taken into consideration so that they can prove these reefs are worth protecting.
- Megafauna Surveys:Ā Just as important as the reefs are the megafauna or larger animals. Guinjata Bay plays to Humpback whales in its winter months when they come to feed, give birth, and mate before heading back to Antarctica. Whale Sharks and Manta Rays also make their appearance and all are of vital importance in conservation and the local ecosystem.
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Today’s Guest:
Francesca Trotman
Tom talks to Francesca Trotman, founder and managing director of Love the Oceans, a British non-profit organization collecting data and conducting research in Mozambique. The aim of Love the Oceans is to set up a self-sustaining, a local community-led marine protected area that both alleviate poverty from the local region and employs effective conservation of its marine world.
Check outĀ lovetheoceans.orgĀ for more information!
Ā
Episode Description
In todayās episode, Tom is Under the Microscope with a marine biologist and founder of Love the Oceans (LTO), a British non-profit conducting research in Mozambique. In the interview they dive into the process of starting up your own non-profit, how and why LTO came to be what it is, the research being conducted and the fundamental reasoning behind the huge amounts of effort put into the local community! You can find out more information by visiting lovetheoceans.org! Music by: Joakim Karud ā https://soundcloud.com/joakimkarud.
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Transcript
Tom: Hello Ladies and gentlemen and welcome back to another episode of Under The Microscope. Joining me today is Francesca Trotman, the founder and managing director of Love the Oceanās a British nonprofit organization conducting research in Mozambique. Today we are just going to be talking about how she set this up because rather impressively she did this while still at university on her masters course, the type of research they are conducting, the way they formed their methodologies and chose to use volunteer science and their many interactions with the local community and why that is so fundamental in conservation and a lot of people donāt understand that. I think so what an incredibly interesting conversation we had and I cannot wait for you guys to hear it. This organization is absolutely fantastic. I went and spent five weeks with them as a volunteer in 2017 and it was one of the best times of my life, if not the best. I mean not only was it a great experience in seeing wildlife, but more than this. It also provided me with great work experience. If you want to check them out, you can head to lovetheoceans.org I will place the link to that in the description of this episode. If you are on our site, you also get all the links to their social media and stuff like that. But at the end of the podcast she does tell you where to find them. So I do not want to delay this any further. Take it away.
Tom: Hello and welcome. Ladies and gentlemen, today Iām under the microscope with Francesca Trotman, the founder and managing director of Love The Oceans a British nonprofit conducting research in Mozambique. Once again, thank you for joining me today, Fran.
Francesca: No worries.
Tom: To start, why donāt you just tell us a bit about your background and your interested areas of study and kind of how you ended up where you are.
Francesca: So I, as you said, I run Love the Oceans. So we are a marine conservation organization and we do lots of different areas of research and Iām a marine biologist by training, so I, well Iāll go right back to the beginning. So when I was 8, my mom took me to the lungs and aquarium. Going way back now. And uh, I was pressed up against the shark tank, like a weird little kid, super obsessed with the sharks. And the dude that was in the tank cleaning the shark tank picked up one of the teeth that had been shared by the sharks. And I kept it for like five years. It was my indicator that I was quite obsessed with sharks. Um, and then I had the opportunities to learn to dive, which I took when I was 13 and I didnāt really look back. I went to uni and I just looked up universities for marine biology. Went did marine bio there, actually did the integrated masters course. And while I was at uni I decided that, um, I wanted to make myself as employable as possible by the time I graduated. So I, um, in the end of my first year I did my dive master qualification. Um, so I could do diving. And then at the end of my second year, I took a photography internship, um, because photography is my second job and that was actually in Mozambique. So while I was on that internship, I saw my first shark killing, um, i.e. Humans killing sharks, not the other way around. And, um, that was really upsetting for me because Iād obviously been obsessed with sharks for a really long time and, uh, I didnāt want sharks to be killed. So I then, uh, decided, well, first of all, I was super angry at the fishermen that had done that killing. And then I realized that it wasnāt the fishermen that I should be angry at. It was the industry as a whole because the reason that they were killing those sharks was for the shark fin trade. So, um, then I went back to the university, uh, and found some research assistants, returned the following year and spent four months with the shark fishermen there and basically researched the industry as a whole and then set up, um, my NGO to continue to initially continued our research. But weāve actually expanded a lot, and now our mission is to establish a Marine Protected Area (MPA) here, which will, um, here being Mozambique and the, that will protect the sharks, but also protects a lot of other habitats and species that are really important to this region. Um, so yeah, thatās kind of how I got to where I am now. So my area of interest really is, um, Elasmobranch fisheries, um, Elasmobranchās being sharks, skates, rays. Um, but that said, I do get super obsessed with each one of our research areas. Um, so yeah, I do kind of expand. Um, but my knowledge base mainly as in fisheries.
Tom: Yeah. I guess itās something I kind of glossed over in the introduction is that youāre actually in Mozambique right now arenāt you?
Tom: Um, yeah yea, itās not too bad!
Tom: Yeah, itās a winter there though, right? At the minute?
Tom: Yeah. I mean winter is still very much warmer than British summer.
Tom: Yeah. Itās a, itās a lot better than here, I can tell you that. Um, so you kind of set up this nonprofit and when you say Mozambique, but it is actually kind of so remote. Itās in the absolute middle of nowhere. I say this because it took me 52 hours constant travel to get from my house to where you guys are in Guinjata Bay.
Francesca: Itās not the easiest place to get to, but it is beautiful. Partly I think because itās so remote. Um, and thatās, and thatās to be honest. Itās one of the things I love about it, even though weāre trying to encourage tourism as an alternative revenue to fishing. So we want more tourists here. And itās also really nice that itās so remote and thereās not a lot of people around. It feels like the beach is your own private beach. Because like, I went for a run this morning and I didnāt see another person on the beach. Um, so, and thatās really nice being up to that, especially cause we have beautiful sunrises on the beach. So then you have your own private beach sunrise.
Tom: Every day. Thatās the life isnāt it? They say the life of a scientist is hard. Um, so is it through the Elasmobranch fisheries research that you ended up specifically in that this region where youāre at or how did you gravitate between or making the decision that this is where you wanted a marine protected area?
Francesca: Yeah, that is literally the reason. So, um, Iād happened upon this area during my photography internship. And that was where Iād seen the sharks being killed. Um, so I figured this area is basically quite representative of the rest of the coastline. Um, so Mozambiqueās got really extensive coastline is a quite a, well, itās a developing nation, um, and this area is pretty typical of what you can expect up and down the coastline. So if we can build a successful conservation model here, we can replicate it up and down the coastline and it would more like pretty likely work. And thatās what weāre trying to do ultimately is create a successful conservation strategy that can be replicated.
Tom: And I think the, the area that youāre in. So I mean, I came out to you guys for five weeks, two years ago, just under two years ago now. And youāve got an extensive reef system. I think itās about 24 reefs out there?
Francesca: Yeah. Itās, itās quite a lot. Yeah.
Tom: So thereās a lot of area to cover. And you use volunteers to help you in this process. How did you come about selecting the volunteer research? Maybe the best way to go for you guys?
Francesca: So I was thinking when I was at university, when I first founded the organization, I was finishing off my masters and I looked at, um, ways to get enough people out there cause I physically couldnāt collect all the data on my own. Um, so I was looking at ways to be able to collect the amount of data that I needed to. I also had to look at financial feasibility and how possible it was for funding and all that kind of stuff. Um, and basically researched around the subject and it became quite apparent that taking volunteers was really the only option, um, with no kind of financial backing or support. That would be, able to, um, pay for me to start like initial investment or anything like that. Like I was broke student.
Tom: [Laughter]. Classic.
Francesca: Um, yeah. So I needed a way that could mean that we could start research immediately and have enough people to help, um, and all of that kind of stuff. And thatās how we kind of went about it. So I actually ended up talking to the head of marine biology at Newcastle University whoās amazing and she believed in our site right from the start. And we still actually have, we run an academic program with Newcastle University now. Yeah really cool. So between Southampton and Newcastle, which are two ofthe best marine bio Uniās. Um, they got onboard straightaway and that gave me access to students also as a marine biologist myself, I found that itās incredibly difficult to get affordible experience in tropical marine biology. Um, so whilst we well was I developed a program to, uh, achieve the goals thatās i.e. Get enough data, get constant data coverage all of that kind of stuff. I also was keeping in mind what skills and what experience I really didnāt have when I was at uni and what I would have loved to have got and had the opportunities to get. And how to make it as affordable as possible.
Tom: Yeah. I guess people when they envisage going to university to study, thatās like where theyāll get, they think theyāll get all the necessary skills to perform their job. But in marine biology is not exactly the case. Especially it wasnāt with me
Francesca: Yeah, to be honest. Yeah. To be honest, like, um, tropical marine biology especially obviously going university in England is going to limit you. In terms of the type of field experience you can get. Um, Kudos to Southamption though, like we went out on the boats and stuff and we got that kind of boat experience that really is essential. Um, but it was literally just the access. And you have, you have university field trips and things like that that does give you access. But being able to put yourself above others when it comes to job applications, getting outside field experience is quite useful and for our organization. Itās um, like we kind of pride ourselves cause weāre such a small organization. The staff body at the moment is five. And thatās the biggest weāve had. Ever. Um, so yeah, being such a small organization also means that our students get to look at how an organization runs and the day to day struggles and stresses that potentially cause everyone, Iāve met so many people in my lifetime that been like, oh yeah, I run a marine conservation organization or yeah, I want to do this and Iām like, you need to be so determined. And be prepared to fall down and get right back up again. You need resilience. Like anything like that is like the key. People are like, oh my gosh, she must be so clever, that youāve done this. And Iām like, I literally, Iām not the cleverest person. I was not the cleverest person in my school or in my peer group or anything like that. The difference is literally just determination. Iāve got more resilience than some of my friends and stuff and that is what has meant that Iāve been able to do this.
Tom: Yeah. I think thatās a quite a big factor to draw upon actually is a lot of the time resilience and hard work will just pay off when you feel like youāre falling behind in other areas or if youāre just striving towards a particular goal. Cause this has quite a big impact on your, your life as well because youāre out in Mozambique for what, six months a year is it?
Francesca: Yeah. Now itās eight months. I hope to get it up to more. Um, but itās about eight months a year and obviously you do make sacrifices. Like people often say, oh youāre so lucky but I mean itās not without its drawbacks of course and you make massive life sacrifices to be able to do what we do. But that said, I am blessed with a staff body now that is really, really good and we have a very tight star team that are really, really dedicated to the cause and they prioritize marine conservation above all else. And thatās something that I couldnāt wish for more like itās so amazing to work with people and like minded people, our volunteers as well. Itās so great having people here where they, we, we basically have a group of people that are super obsessed with the ocean and are prepared to quite a lot to save it. And thatās um, a really great feeling. Even just sat around the dinner table at night. Um, conversation is always marine themed and thatās really lovely. Um, and yeah, great to hang out with people like that.
Tom: I did a short form podcast on volunteer science last week and it was discussed. One point I mentioned was actually how sometimes volunteers, okay. There may not be the best trained, but theyāve got that passion. Theyāve got that drive to want to help, especially if theyāve gone somewhere to like Mozambique to have this experience. Sometimes that pays off better than having, you know, someone pulled in who doesnāt really want to do it, but maybe they have the training.
Francesca: Yeah, 100% like eagerness is all, like, is so valuable whenever schools and stuff ask me all, have you got any advice for are students? Iām like, enthusiam, enthusiasm, enthusiasm, for example, in our school, so in our swimming programs. We do swimming lessons with the local community to get more kids in the water and passionate about the ocean. Um, and when they get to advance stage, we offer them the opportunity to become an ocean conservation champion an OCC. And our OCCs are then given the opportunity to do their English qualification and uh, do their diving qualification, their surf qualification. Um, thatās the main qualification. Lots of different opportunities. And in return they become an ambassador for conservation in their community and help spread the word. Uh, and weāve got a, a group of about, I would say about six boys that are really good, um, in our advanced group and I have been talking to them a lot about what theyāre going to do with their futures. And one of them is really, really incredible in terms of his enthusiasm. He hasnāt got the most natural talent, but heās willing to put in the work. Versus one of the other boys. Heās got a lot of natural talent but doesnāt really bother because heās say not talented. And for me when Iām looking like hiring future staff cause these kids can work with us in the future, Iām making a note being like, okay, that kid is lazy but talented. But the kid that is willing to put in the work can train to get better. And that kind of enthusiasm is invaluable.
Tom: Yeah, exactly. You canāt install that and people can you all the time.
Tom: No.
Tom: So with your research, you were talking about, you cover four main areas. I think itās cetacean research. So whale humpback whales, a humpback whale nursery there isnāt there? Coral reef research, uh, the fisheries research and the plastic pollution there. Um, can you just cover these?
Francesca: So weāve actually⦠Weāve expanded a little bit as well, and we now do instead of just cetaceans, itās also like itās Megafauna, whale sharks and Manta rays as well.
Tom: Oh Wow. Um, so how come you chose these areas in particular? Is this like the requirements to set up a marine protected area or is it just to kind of find out whatās there or?
Francesca: No, so what weāve done, because thereās no research in this area at all, weāre the first, uh, people doing, um, prolonged research in these areas and getting kind of baseline surveys consistently throughout the year. Um, basically with the, these, uh, topics, weāve chosen them because, um, they are really good groundwork to lobby for legislation change on a for a marine protected area. Um, so for instance, um, the coral reef data we are collecting to prove that our reefs are very diverse and theyāre worth protecting. The humpback whale data is the, and actually all the megafauna data to be honest, is the, um, thatās the financial incentive for the government to establish the marine protected area. That is basically saying that we can guarantee a touristic sighting which we can, in whale high season, we can guarantee a touristic sighting and thereās a very feasible ecotourism species, here, and that isnāt harnessed at the moment, that has the potential to generate a lot of revenue for the local community. And that is really important because that will provide an alternate source of income to fishing and alleviate poverty. And poverty alleviation is intrinsically linked to successful conservation strategies. Um, so thatās the humpback whale research. Our fisheries research is proving that Iām certain fishing methods are unsustainable and there needs to be legislation change on different types of fishing and minimum landing sizes and species and target species, catch limits, all of that kind of stuff. Um, and then our ocean trash research, which is actually a fairly new area of research. Um, we started doing it only a couple of years ago, um, that, area research is looking at composition of trash and what we can do with it. Um, because thereāss no kind of trash management here. And, um, thatās a real problem in an area, especially developing nations the world a better are massive targets for the plastic industry. Because itās so convenient and cheap. Um, but as a result that⦠Well actually, theyāve got some of the worst, uh, kind of management of that as well because they donāt have the infrastructure in place to be able to handle that amount of materials. And so often they can sometimes feel the biggest contributors to um, I ocean trash. And so now weāre looking at ways to manage trash in the local community because, um, recycling isnāt a thing thatās done here. So weāre looking at what can be done and that kind of links with our community projects as well because weāre looking at eco-bricks and feasibility of um, like basically using them in infrastructure, uh, and all of that kind of stuff. So it all links together, um, in one big circle basically. Um, cause we got our coral reefs, our fisheries, our ocean trash, our megafauna. Um, so yeah.
Tom: Yeah. One of the things you, you mentioned a couple of times and itās something that I was surprised before I came out was how heavily involved with the local community you were. So you teach at the local schools, youāre building up this rapport with the local fishermen. And some of the government officials around. Um, but can you explain why this is so important to be doing in tandem with your research for people who may not understand?
Francesca: Yeah, so Iām a big believer. Humans are the cause of most environmental issues these days. And so they have to be part of the solution. Iām a big believer in community based conservation approaches. Um, and for a, for any kind of marine conservation project to be culturally integrated and long term and locally run, therefore alleviating poverty and benefiting the local community, the local community has to be a major part of that strategy. Um, and so what we do is we provide education, um, because education level is very, very low here. And most people leave school age around 13 years old. Um, and thereās over 50% illiteracy rate in our region, which isnāt uncommon for rural regions and developing nations. Um, and basically we are providing education in terms of, um, uh, adding into the syllabus. So we donāt take away any free periods or anything like that. Uh, any, any, uh, lessons or anything. We only take free periods. Um, and the lessons are optional for the kids to attend, but t hey, everyone attends them because it has been received really well. So we take teach basically, um, marine resource management. So we cover off topics like sustainability and ecotourism. Weāre in protected areas as well as the animals that they have in the ocean and littering in the oceans coral reefs, that kind of thing. Um, and that is an additive to their national syllabus as well. So weāre working to get that written into the national curriculum. Um, but at the moment itās just taught at the two schools that we teach at. So thatās around 1,500 kids receiving education in that. And we also teach the theory of how to get out of a riptide, um, but on top of that, so thatās kind of like the education section and we work with adults in the community as well, covering lots of different topics. But on top of that, we actually do the swimming lessons on the weekends and we do construction work, but we are an ethical organization and I do a lot of talks, um, around the UK on ethics. And talk that travel shows about how to navigate the travel industry and volunteer industry ethically and things like that. Um, because thereās been a boom in voluntourism and uh, often people donāt know about ethics and whatās good and, and, and if youāre being told that youāre doing good, you generally believe it. Um, but unfortunately not everyone is true to their words. So Iām always, we are always pushing ethics and weāre always striving for best practices and organization as I think everyone should. Um, but one of the ethical things that we go by is we donāt do anything here that we wouldnāt do at home. And our volunteers are not bricklayers, they donāt have brick lane qualifications, they donāt know how to build classrooms. So weāre not gonna, uh, get them to do any of that construction work. Uh, we employ a local building team thatās also materials leaky fair by where it was providing employment and injecting money into the local economy. Um, on top of that, the only stuff that we do at schools is elderly elder approved. So basically, um, in terms of community structure here you have, uh, the elders, which are basically the mayors of the area. And, uh, they, uh, basically we work with them really closely and they approve anything that we think would be a good idea. Um, weāve, weāve got a really, really good, um, relationship with them and they asked if we could get each classroom [school*] we work at up to, um, 10 classrooms, 10 functional classrooms. And if that can happen, then education up to the age of 18 can happen in the area. Cause currently weāve got, um, thereās one other school that we donāt work at, at the moment. And thatās secondary school. So you have primary school, which is age between six and 13 and then secondary school, 13 to 16 and then high school, 16 to 18. And we donāt have any high school here. So the longest you can go to school to here is age 16. Um, but if we can get both of the schools, we work out to 10 classroom that will established, one as the primary school for all the kids in the area. The second as the secondary school for the kids in the area and the current secondary school can be upgraded to a high school and then people in the area can receive education to the age of 18, which is a massive step.
Tom: Yeah thatās huge!
Tom: And with that of change in education, um, and upgrading qualifications, you then have a community with a better skillset and ability to manage a marine protected area because you canāt just hand over the management of an MPA to community that, uh, is illiterate or cannot, cannot, um, doesnāt have the skills that to be able to do that. So if you want community led projects, you have to work in the local community, um, and help with education and things like that because thatās education is the key and you have to use that to help alleviate poverty.
Tom: Yeah, exactly. And I think itās, it comes with you canāt just turn up to somewhere else in the world and say, youāre doing this wrong. You need to do this. You need to really, I think as you say, work with them with the eventual goal to hand it off to them maybe. So it becomes self sustaining.
Francesca: Yeah, itās actually really interesting and weāve learned a lot, obviously itās always a massive learning curve working so closely with the local community. Um, but the, I was talking to the regional governor recently and sheās a woman and a, which is actually pretty unusual for, for Mozambique, um, women donāt really have any rights here. And, um, she was saying that sheās working on projects getting women in school longer. Um, and she used actually working a lot with us now, which is, um, really refreshing to work closely with government officials as well. Um, because at the end of the day, everyoneās got the same, um, goal of, uh, helping Mozambique and alleviating poverty. Because the thing with poverty is that when someone, so the example I use in schools when I talk in schools, the simple example is if a fisherman is on a boat and heās just fished a, uh, say herbivore a fish, thatās not a great one to fish. If he is in poverty, if he doesnāt have a job, if he doesnāt have any other options to get food for his family that night, heās just going to keep that fish. Heās not going to release it because he needs to feed his family. Um, whereas if he has an alternative source of income, if he has education around conservation, if he has other skills that he can use, he wonāt be in poverty and he has the option to put that fish back into the water. Um, in that way, conservation is intrinsically linked with poverty alleviation.
Tom: Yeah. So a really big step forward that youāre making and it wasnāt always easy, was it? I think when you first turned up, I remember you saying there was quite a bit of resistance to, uh, from the community.
Francesca: Uh, yeah. It wasnāt from the community as such. That was just from the fishermen, the shark fisherman in particular, because that was this history of the shark fishermen. Um, a fishing sharks and tourists seeing it, Iām running up to the fishermen and starting screaming at them in tears and saying they had to put it back. But the fishermen donāt speak English. Most of them are illiterate. Um, so they, for them, from their perspective, theyāre doing something that theyāve been doing for a long time. They are making a living for their family. They have no kind of attachment to these sharks. Theyāve had no education around these sharks. These sharks are just meat to them. And then now theyāve got some foreign person thatās turned up screaming at them in a foreign language, uh, telling, trying to take their catch away from them that is going to feed their family that night. Um, thoughts and very negative interaction. And that happened repeatedly. So there was a negative association of foreigners basically by the fishermen. So we worked for a long time with them now and itās, it was quite hard to make sure that theyāre aware of why we were collecting data and, um, providing some education around that.
Tom: Yeah, I remember, I think it mustāve been in my fourth week there that we saw a shark, uh, being killed. And to me that was like, wholly disturbing. I think as you said, you know, an incredibly upsetting thing to see, especially as you grow up kind of marveling at these creatures. But I expected to be angry at the fisherman and be angry at these people, but because Iād spent the previous four weeks with them, seeing their life, seeing how theyāre, theyāre really not in control of much, especially with whatās happening to them and their options and their choices. So you kind of empathize with them. And thatās something I really didnāt expect to happen.
Francesca: I think that often liked movies and TV stuff can not take into account everyoneās point of view and often the fishermen are painted as the baddies, but their motives are not assessed. Um, and I think in a poverty region like ours, poverty stricken region like ours, itās really important to look at the motives and tackle the motives. Um, and that way youāll solve the problems. So by providing an alternative source of income and the education around that, um, that will be, uh, more successful than just telling the fishermen that they canāt fish anymore. You need to be able to provide them with an alternative source of income and enable them to live basically, but more sustainably.
Tom: Yeah, exactly. Um, so over the, youāve been what, theyāre seven years now?
Francesca: Yeah. This is my seventh.
Tom: Yeah. Uh, what have been your main issues with, uh, the whole process? Um, and then is there anything you wouldāve done differently? Cause I know, I guess this isnāt something thatās your fault, but you are tropical storm Dineo three years ago or two and a half years ago and that kind of must have turned everything upside down. That was when I came and you know, um, yeah. Can you tell me anything like that?
Francesca: Um, our biggest challenges? Hmmm always money, [Laughter]
Tom: Yeah! [Laughter]
Francesca: Anyone that works in stem knows that one. Um, so always money challenges. Um, I guess like getting enough volunteers for data collection to be effective and long term. Um, and now this year for the first time, which is really cool, weāre employing our staff for all year round, which means we have someone on the ground the whole year. Uh, and that also means that, uh, we can help protect the turtles in this region, the nesting turtles, because we have two species in nesting turtles that are hear from November to March. And that used to be when we would shut up shop for some of that time, whereas now we actually can keep it open and, and manage that and help protect them, which is really cool. Um, we also have struggled with, I mean, I guess we struggle sometimes with lodge owners and things like that in the area who donāt understand what weāre doing or are worried, uh, that weāre taking away from tourism or something like that. Um, but thatās just a simple misunderstanding of what ecoourism is. And, uh, what that means and working together. Uh, and so that means that we have to do quite a lot of work on, um, explaining exactly what an MPA is because sometimes people hear marine protected area and they think, oh, that means absolutely no activities, no diving, no fishing, nothing. And they seem to forget that that doesnāt mean that and that there is a loads of different types of marine protected areas and weāre not doing a no take zone or anything like that. People will still be up to fish because you canāt just remove that source of income for, um, the local community. Um, so also explaining that, Iād have to explain a few different times, um, and just kind of saying we are here to do good. Weāre not here to, uh, you know, just close everything down. Weāre not anti humans in any way, shape or form. Um, so yeah, I guess thatās been tricky as well. Thatās probably one of our biggest, um, problems in terms of doing things differently. Um, uh, I donāt think⦠Pretty much the entire way that weāve run the programs and everything like that. I think I wouldnāt do anything differently there. And also our community, like I wouldnāt do anything differently there. Uh, I probably would have cleared everything out of the dive center more if Iād known how bad the cyclone was going to be. [Laughter].
Tom: [Laughter]. Yeah, things you canāt manage for though.
Francesca: But um, apart from that, yeah, you canāt really predict those events unfortunately. So, um, yeah, uh, that would probably be the onyl thing that I would do differently. Otherwise more or less everything is the same although, I guess I probably would have, weāre going through our charity registration at that moment to be a charity rather than a nonprofit. And we should hopefully have that next month. But I put it off for a really long time because everyone Iāve spoken to had said, oh, itās such a nightmare. Donāt do it. Donāt do it. Donāt do it. The registration process is so long and actually it hasnāt been as bad as everyone said and I wish I had actually just gone that quite a lot earlier cause that would have been opened up new avenues of funding for us. Um, but weāre doing that now, so yeah,
Tom: exactly. Youāre getting there one piece at a time. I guess, and I think thereās something you touched on. Which is very important and I think a lot of people donāt realize when it comes to any scientific work, but especially conservation in tropical areas is getting the balance right between that the community aspect is so important because if you donāt have the backing of the local community or you donāt involve them, there is no way that you can really do any work research, conservation or otherwise.
Francesca: Yeah, yeah. You do have to have 100%. You have to have the community backing. Um, otherwise it makes things very, very difficult. Um, and weāve kind of got two communities where we are. We have an ex-pat community and a local community and the local community are so awesome to work with. Those are the elders I was talking about. And basically whenever we bring anything to the table, um, itās really well received. Often theyāll suggest things themselves. Um, Silvaās been, Silva is one of the elders we work with. Silvaās been working with us on potentially introducing evening classes, um, for different, uh, various different projects that weāre working on. Uh, weāve spoken to him about aquaponics, the local community. They are, aware the education level is low here and they want to change that and they want to improve their community, um, understandably to be as best as it can be. And uh, they, yeah, theyāre actually a complete pleasure to work with. I really enjoy our work with them. Uh, swimming lessons are, even though I kind of dread them all week because are so ehausting, I really enjoy it when Iām doing it and it gives you such a buzz to see the kids improve, um, so quickly, uh, from lesson to lesson. So
Tom: I remember one of the, I remember the community section being one of the funnest parts was interacting with all the, the kids and the teachers and everything is a, yeah, it was a real pleasure.
Francesca: Yeah. You get a real buzz from it.
Tom: Yeah. Thatās really cool. So one final question then is what is your vision of the future for Love the Oceans? What happens if you get this marine protected area and maybe how far away from you from that do you think you are?
Francesca: So Iām hoping that weāll get that through in the next five years. I think thatās a feasible goal. Um, and we have a 15 year plan, which were five years through at the moment, so weāve got 10 years of that plan, uh, left. And basically what weāre planning on doing is yes, the MPA creation, but thatās not the be all and end all. And we wonāt completely withdraw. We plan to have it, uh, locally managed. Um, and thatās what we were working with the community on at the moment, um, and providing skill sets and things like that. Um, but, uh, with the creation of an MPA comes a lot more, many more opportunities like, um, uh, artificial reefs and coral propagation projects, things like that. Um, and I think we probably would still have a base here, uh, but it would be less management and more community led. Um, but yeah, and then what we plan to do is then replicate this up and down the coastline once, once this, um, stratgey has been successful. We are pretty confident itāll work in other places too, even if itās not an actually like recognized nationally recognized marine protected area, cause obviously Mozambique canāt make their entire coast line a marine protected area. As lovely as that would be, um, uh, so even if itās just a, in terms of like basic management of conservation, um, it would be really cool to have management conservation management strategies in place that are proven to work in this country and potentially even in other developing nations like Tanzania is just a little bit up from us and has very much the same issues. Um, and most, most developing nations have very similar issues in terms of um, short term gain versus long term, um, sustainability and tackling that money makes the world go round and all of that. And so,
Tom: so I remember I went to Tanzania when I was 16, and we spent a week on the coastline and itās absolutely incredible the amount of life there and the fish there. But there was also, you know, like dilapidated fishing, uh, buildings and you could tell the infrastructure just wasnāt there at all. I think similar as you say, Mozambique. So yeah, that would be an interesting project I think too.
Francesca: Yeah, I understand that theyāve got quite a bit more dynamite fishing than what we have here. Um, or at least we donāt really have that in this area. Um, but thatās another thing that weād be looking at. Um, thatās quite far in the future now. Um, at the moment weāre looking at more local stuff, so coral propogation projects is definitely something that Iād like to get off the ground here.
Tom: Well thatād be amazing. Yeah. So for all the listeners, is there a place that they can find you? Iāll put like the link to your website in the description of the video [I meant podcast].
Francesca: Yeah, definitely. So a shameless plug, they can read our website and watch our most recent documentary thatās been made on us, um, on, uh, www.lovetheoceans.org. Um, oceans plural. Weāre also on Facebook. I think our Facebook is lovely oceans organization. And then our Instagram and our Twitter is just,.@lovetheoceans. Um, and they can see all of what weāre up to. Iāve had to take on the responsibility of Instagram stories, which is daily posts so they can, uh, really see what weāre doing day to day.
Tom: Itās amazing. I something I am going to talk about in my Friday podcast actually scientific communication and how important social media and stuff like Instagram is just to making your cause aware and spreading your word. I think thatās a good route that youāre going down to pursue that and it sometimes it can seem like a bit of a chore to find a picture and put it online, uh, but it is definitely the right thing to be doing. And yeah, so
Francesca: Especially with um, generations that are growing up now, social media is a massive part of their lives. So in order to kind of do that educational outreach, social media is really important.
Tom: Definitely if people wanted to volunteer, they could just head to lovetheoceans.org as well?
Francesca: Yeah. That they can go on lovetheoceans.org and thereās a form that they can fill in on the website. And that actually is answered by me, so theyāll get done through directly to me. Um, and then we can take it from there.
Tom: All right. Fantastic. And thatās the demographic for that is students at university? Is it?
Francesca: Umm so we actually have a few different programs. We take school trips, we take photography groups, then we take students from university on a university program and we also have a general public program called our conservation adventure program. Um, so even if they donāt dive, they can get a dive qualifications while theyāre with us. Weāre partnered with, uh, PADI Five-star and Greenstar Center, so they can do all that while theyāre with us, um, and get that training and everything they need in country. So yeah, pretty efficient set up.
Tom: I did my open water, my advanced open water with you guys. Ah, that was the best decision I ever made to dive on Manta reef, ah it was incredible. Is this just open to UK citizens?
Francesca: No, itās open international, say anyone from anywhere in the world can apply. No worries.
Tom: Thatās fantastic. All right. Well thank you so much for joining me and taking time out of your day. I imagine an exceptionally busy day to speak with me. Uh, it was, uh, it was amazing.
Francesca: No thank you very much for having me.
Tom: Once again, that was Francesca Trotman, the founder and managing director of love, the oceans. I think that has to be one of my favorite interviews so far. How engaging, how real that kind of conversation was. I mean weāre talking about someone who is in Mozambique right now actively trying to change the lives of the people she is working close to as well as the environment that she is working in. A next to, she hit on some really good points in the interview and want to, I want to highlight is the fact of drive something that Iām going to cover on The Method Section. It will be this week by the time this comes out and is being wrong and having that drive no matter what you kind of are achieving counts for so much. You know, some people can be not very talented at maths. Um, okay. But if you have that drive to learn that drive to get better, whilst it might be a struggle, itās just like learning a language. It follows the same rules. You will get there. You will. However, obviously that is for that episode. Again, I want to give a massive shout out to Francesca Trotman and Love The Oceans. You can find the links to all that social medias down below. If youāre on our website and you can find the link to the website in the episode description. Thank you guys very much for listening, but once again, that is all we have time for on under the microscope for now. So I shall see you guys A-next time.